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Post by sprout203 on Jun 1, 2023 7:45:40 GMT -6
As of now the know linear TV games by Conference CUSA: 36 (9 teams) MWC: 46 (12 teams) MAC: 38 (12 teams) AAC: 36 (14 teams) SBC: 19 (14 teams) Championship games not included. Simple math is 4 games per team for CUSA. More than all of the others, even if by decimals. |
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Post by gemofthehills on Jun 1, 2023 12:05:57 GMT -6
FBS Schedule is listing the SBC ESPN games. Not a lot of slots left after filling all of the games released yesterday. SBC like most other conference have the Platform or 12 day listing which appears to mean the door is still open but most of those games will go P5. From the release yesterday, the forum posters must have gotten the information incorrect on their slots. Almost double the released games will be needed to catch up with the other G5 conferences.
Last year the SBC had one regular season game on ESPN, the likelihood of several being on this year are not great. App St v Coastal was the game. The championship game was on also but neither was a ESPN level draws so the network will most likely pick a P5 game.
No SBC, MAC or CUSA teams will draw a million viewers on ESPN unless playing a P5 team. Bowl and Championship games may cross the line but not regular season games. Dont look more many G5 games on ESPN as people do not watch at the same rate they watch P5 games.
Non P5 games on NFL will be in the 100K-200K range
ESPN2 will top out less than 500K probably more in the 200-300K unless a good matchup
ESPN may get to 750K
ESPNU games will be less than 100K most games or lucky to measure.
CBSSN isnt measure by Neilsen to my knowledge.
JSU last year in a FCS game was over 500K on ESPN.
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Post by Whup Em All on Jun 1, 2023 12:41:28 GMT -6
CUSA's old deal was CBSSN, Stadium, and Facebook. (Yes, Facebook. Where everyone tunes in to watch college football...)
No ESPN.
That horrible deal was signed despite the presence of UAB, UTSA, Charlotte, Rice, FAU, Marshall, and Southern Miss.
For CUSA to sign a new deal giving them so many linear network games (even if it does include sports-package channels) and a presence across the ESPN platform (including ESPN and ESPN2) is nothing short of miraculous.
Whether it's "better" than SBC isn't even the point. The Belt was negotiating from a position of strength. CUSA was just trying to get its foot back in the door. We've done that.
For the next round of negotiations a few years from now, the current deals don't matter. The networks will look at only one thing: are the teams drawing an audience?
If SBC cycles downward and CUSA cycles upward, we'll cash in big on the next deal. If the reverse is true, then we'll be looking at another deal full of midweek games.
Ultimately, all we can do is win. The rest will work itself out. One way or another.
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Post by gemofthehills on Jun 1, 2023 13:14:00 GMT -6
My point is everyone is talking about SBC package as being great, while it appears it is no better than on par with the other G5s. CUSA media package is on par with the group but everyone is saying it sucks.
Why are the SBC members/forum posters joyful while CUSA members/forum posters complaining? No one has shown me anything where one has some huge advantage over the other except perception. The only advantage is SBC folks are finding the positive in everything and that is nice and will help sale recruits.
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Post by Cleburneslim on Jun 1, 2023 17:49:47 GMT -6
Sbc forum posters are arrogant asses who hear what they want and brag as though they were in the sec.
Delusional
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Post by biggreentruck on Jun 1, 2023 21:48:45 GMT -6
How does any team afford to go to the SBC? I understand why the SBC3 did, fear the conference was dying and needed a home. But under current conditions the pay isnt there to justify the cost of changing. By some accounts the SBC will get less revenue than CUSA but its probably close enough than neither conference will steal from the other without some major changes. From a very reliable source I have... Southern Miss was going to the SBC, regardless of who stayed or left CUSA.
Marshall and Old Dominion admin were having meetings, which have since become public, about forming a new east conference. They were unable to get enough schools on board, and the idea didn't advance very far. Appalachian State was a key cog in it all, and they were interested, but they were apparently worried about leaving the SBC for a new conference that may not have equaled the revenue they were getting in the SBC. There was also a worry that ESPN wouldn't offer much since they already had long-term contracts with the SBC, AAC, MAC, and some of the P5 conferences. There was likely going to be less competition to bid for media rights for this new "east coast" conference. Which looking at what's happening with the Pac-12 now.... that was probably a good choice.
So Marshall and Old Dominion, after knowing that Southern Miss had already been in contact with the SBC (and knowing that the CUSA-6 would be heading to the AAC), contacted the SBC to see what it would look like if they joined. They all looked at the figures of what ESPN was going to offer if all 3 joined, and what the SBC would do as far as eliminating entrance fees. Marshall and ODU also inquired about James Madison joining the SBC, which wa one sticking point for Marshall and ODU to join. The outlook of having a 14-team conference that would have the potential to break in a NY6 or Playoff was also an intriguing prospect from a revenue standpoint. On another note, Marshall and ODU were interested in getting involved with ESPN and having their programs back on the national stage, as well as having easier access for their fans to be able to watch games from a single streaming service.
Thus, JMU, Marshall, ODU, and the SBC got together, figured it all out as far as revenue goes, and a commitment was made. There was also a stipulation that the SBC had to inact new policies over the next few years to improve basketball to be among the best mid-major basketball conferences, without sacrificing football. That was one of ODU's sticking points. And the SBC agreed. Which is now why we're seeing the SBC talk about scheduling tougher competition an buying more home games after they just had their spring meetings.
And every word here is a bunch mumbo jumbo junk....
Southern Miss, UAB and Marshall started talks with the Sun Belt in the summer of 2019 after the majority of the CUSA presidents refused to vote Judy MacLeod out including the five schools left behind. When realignment started to heat up again UAB stepped back and started to engage with the AAC. Both Southern Miss and Marshall knowing neither fit the AAC profile school as a large urban metro school kept talking to the Sun Belt. By the middle of 2020 both schools had already made their mind up they were leaving CUSA.
It was just USM and Marshall until Jan 2021 when ODU started to be mentioned as a possible third school and two weeks later JMU was identified as a school that may move up from the CAA. After the AAC announced their 6 schools both USM and Marshall were gone. The conference was nothing like what Marshall joined in 2003 and was even worse than that for Southern Miss. Marshall and App State are the two schools that eventually pushed for both ODU and JMU but up until a week before the invites went out it was just Southern Miss and Marshall when ESPN made everyone whole to also add ODU and JMU.
Marshall and ODU never had conversations with Liberty, JMU and CUSA to stay.
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Post by jsumania on Jun 8, 2023 9:56:25 GMT -6
FBS Schedule is listing the SBC ESPN games. Not a lot of slots left after filling all of the games released yesterday. SBC like most other conference have the Platform or 12 day listing which appears to mean the door is still open but most of those games will go P5. From the release yesterday, the forum posters must have gotten the information incorrect on their slots. Almost double the released games will be needed to catch up with the other G5 conferences. Last year the SBC had one regular season game on ESPN, the likelihood of several being on this year are not great. App St v Coastal was the game. The championship game was on also but neither was a ESPN level draws so the network will most likely pick a P5 game. No SBC, MAC or CUSA teams will draw a million viewers on ESPN unless playing a P5 team. Bowl and Championship games may cross the line but not regular season games. Dont look more many G5 games on ESPN as people do not watch at the same rate they watch P5 games. Non P5 games on NFL will be in the 100K-200K range ESPN2 will top out less than 500K probably more in the 200-300K unless a good matchup ESPN may get to 750K ESPNU games will be less than 100K most games or lucky to measure. CBSSN isnt measure by Neilsen to my knowledge. JSU last year in a FCS game was over 500K on ESPN. I don't think you're understanding how ESPN picks games for conferences.
The AAC and the Sun Belt will have more games picked as the season goes on. They wait to see what the best match-ups are as the season unfolds. ESPN already has weekend slots saved for those conferences. A P5 can't just take away slots from other conferences.
The folks at ESPN don't just pool together all remaining games between the SEC, Big 10, Sun Belt, American, ACC, and Pac-12 and decide which ones to pick. That would breach some contracts. Those weekend slots are already saved for those conferences. The only thing different ESPN can do is change the time and change the linear network (i.e. bump a game from ESPNU to ESPN2).
And ESPN has already announced that the Sun Belt title game will either be on ABC or ESPN... so again, that won't be one a P5 takes away.
If CUSA had a deal for Saturday games with ESPN, we would be in the same boat. Our ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU Saturday games would be picked up as the season went on. ESPN wouldn't pick an FIU vs. KSU match-up in the preseason when they can wait and see if a really good Liberty will be playing a really good WKU or JSU.
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Post by jsumania on Jun 8, 2023 10:03:37 GMT -6
My point is everyone is talking about SBC package as being great, while it appears it is no better than on par with the other G5s. CUSA media package is on par with the group but everyone is saying it sucks. Why are the SBC members/forum posters joyful while CUSA members/forum posters complaining? No one has shown me anything where one has some huge advantage over the other except perception. The only advantage is SBC folks are finding the positive in everything and that is nice and will help sale recruits. I don't think the SBC is package is "great." The AAC package is "great... until one or two more of their original schools leave, then it will trigger the re-negotiation of that entire contract.
The SBC package is slightly better than CUSA though, IMO. It pays a few hundred K more according to what I've seen, they get more Saturday TV, they will have the Thursday evening time slots (which is considered a "premium" midweek football slot, compared to Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday games which aren't).
Overall, I'm just glad CUSA has their foot back in the ESPN door. We have to start somewhere. And finding good, quality broadcasts for JSU football will be incredibly easy. It will be cool to see us on CBS Sports and ESPN.
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Post by Whup Em All on Jun 8, 2023 11:31:10 GMT -6
My point is everyone is talking about SBC package as being great, while it appears it is no better than on par with the other G5s. CUSA media package is on par with the group but everyone is saying it sucks. Why are the SBC members/forum posters joyful while CUSA members/forum posters complaining? No one has shown me anything where one has some huge advantage over the other except perception. The only advantage is SBC folks are finding the positive in everything and that is nice and will help sale recruits. I don't think the SBC is package is "great." The AAC package is "great... until one or two more of their original schools leave, then it will trigger the re-negotiation of that entire contract.
The SBC package is slightly better than CUSA though, IMO. It pays a few hundred K more according to what I've seen, they get more Saturday TV, they will have the Thursday evening time slots (which is considered a "premium" midweek football slot, compared to Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday games which aren't).
Overall, I'm just glad CUSA has their foot back in the ESPN door. We have to start somewhere. And finding good, quality broadcasts for JSU football will be incredibly easy. It will be cool to see us on CBS Sports and ESPN.
I agree... CUSA got their foot in the door with this round of negotiations. The bad blood between ESPN and CUSA is something which predates Jax State, and most of the league officials (and university presidents) involved in that fiasco have since moved on. I'm no fan of Corporate Disney, but CUSA clearly overestimated the impact of several alternate streaming services when they told ESPN to take a flying leap, and the conference paid a severe price for it. At least all we're on speaking terms again. If the Gamecocks, Bearkats, Flames, Aggies, Owls, and core remaining CUSA teams can hold up our end of the deal by fielding strong, competitive, entertaining football teams that draw SOME amount of viewers on these weird weeknight games, we perform well in our nonconference games, and our bowl-eligible teams fare well, then we'll be in a much better place for the next media negotiations. Will we wind up with more midweek games in that deal? Probably. I'm no optimist when it comes to G5's standing in the CFP pecking order. We'll get whatever scraps the Power 2 and Somewhat-Less-Power 3 leave behind. But maybe we wind up with a few Thursday games instead of those horrible Tuesday and Wednesday dates. I'm just glad we escaped the Friday night curse this season. Friday night games may play well in New England or California... but that's not how we do things down South.  |
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Post by gemofthehills on Jun 8, 2023 15:49:24 GMT -6
Why is Thursday better than Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday? I understand Friday but the other days are all about the same. Plus Thursdays have NFL competition and that is a big loser for all college teams.
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Post by jsumania on Jun 8, 2023 22:28:04 GMT -6
Why is Thursday better than Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday? I understand Friday but the other days are all about the same. Plus Thursdays have NFL competition and that is a big loser for all college teams. Thursday has been considered a "marquee matchup" night for years, ever since ESPN began their Thursday GameNight broadcast back in the early 2000's. A lot of folks generally expect a game to be airing on a Thursday night almost every week. They might not know beforehand who is playing, but a lot of people will at least check it out to see who is playing. Thursday games almost always get aired on ESPN. Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday games almost always get aired on ESPN2 or ESPNU.. for a reason. |
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Post by gemofthehills on Jun 9, 2023 6:38:12 GMT -6
ESPN rarely has a non P2 or M3 game on Thursday (SBC had one game total last year). Of midweek games Friday nights are probably the best rated as a group. Havent calculated the numbers but Wednesday or Thursday would be the next best for G5 schools but Tuesdays are not far behind. The Tuesdays and Wednesdays pick up after the first weeks and people realize there is football on TV.
G5 games on ESPN2 or ESPN2 do not get any better ratings than FS1 could be lower. Most weeks an ESPN product is the lowest rated broadcast of week (CBSNN doesnt get rated). NFLN will be lower on the weeks with games. ESPNU has several games I assume are so lowly rated they get a blank.
Mentioned the SBC championship game will be on ABC or ESPN. SBC game was on ESPN last year and was the lowest rated championship game. They were up against the AAC, SWAC and SEC game. The ratings AAC 2.7 mil (ABC), SWAC 391K (ESPN2) and SEC 10.89 mil (CBS), SBC had 332K (ESPN). Ive yet to see any numbers or anyone offer numbers which present the SBCs media deal as any better than any other G5 league. MWC seems to have the best if ratings are the measuring stick.
Understand there is a lot of hate for CUSA and love for SBC, wish someone could show me some facts to make me agree. Having a tighter geography is a plus for SBC. At the same time I would not want to lose KSU, Middle and WKU as opponents.
Is the ultimate goal to score more viewers or have Saturday games? Saturday games with more competition seem to be lower rated than midweek games and we have no history of attendance on Tuesday or Wednesday games. If the word gets out those nights should be as easy to attend as a Thursday game. Thursday games in the past have been pretty well attended. In a few months we will get to see if anyone shows.
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Post by Whup Em All on Jun 9, 2023 9:09:17 GMT -6
Why is Thursday better than Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday? I understand Friday but the other days are all about the same. Plus Thursdays have NFL competition and that is a big loser for all college teams. It all boils down to personal preference. I don't believe there is an objective measure here. That said, here's my opinion... SUNDAY - NFL. No college game should ever be played at any time on this day. MONDAY NIGHT - NFL. See Sunday. TUESDAY NIGHT - Usually not much competition here, but it's just an odd day for college ball. For those with Mon-Fri jobs, especially if they travel, it wrecks the middle of the work week. You can work maybe a half day Tuesday if you want to tailgate or need to travel. If the game runs long, you'll then either be bleary at work Wednesday morning, or you'll need to take a day or half-day then, too. Not all jobs are the same, but in my experience, Mondays through Wednesdays are the busiest days, with people cramming things in before taking it easy (or even skipping, where possible and permitted) at the end of the work week. WEDNESDAY NIGHT - Probably fine for most people. But for many churchgoers in the South (and not just baptists!) Wednesday nights are for church. One of my best friends in college wouldn't do ANYTHING on a Wednesday night if it conflicted with church. (Not a baptist.) My current church (Southern Baptist) used to have a big fellowship meal on Wednesdays. That ended with the virus of unknown origin, and it's been one of the few things we haven't been able to kickstart back into existence. But even now, we teach hold children/youth bible studies on Wednesday nights. Football on this night is problematic for me, because I'm one of the children's teachers. I don't get to attend many games in person as it is, but this would prevent me from even being able to watch most of the game on TV, and even if I watch a delayed stream, I can't sync it with the Voice, which means I'm stuck with whatever announcers are on the main broadcast. That just takes me out of the game completely. THURSDAY NIGHT - There *are* some high school games and a couple of NFL games on Thursdays, so that's a problem. But when it comes to midweek dates, this is the premium slot. The high school games only conflict with fans connected with those particular games. That's a relatively small number. Diehard NFL fans may watch Thursday Night Football, regardless of who's playing, but MOST college football fans (especially in the South) will choose a college game over an NFL broadcast, unless THEIR team is one of the NFL teams playing. I mean, if it's the Falcons vs the Saints on Thursday night, and JSU's playing the same time, well... the Gamecocks are going to lose a bunch of eyeballs. Otherwise, the NFL game will barely made a dent in the ratings/attendance numbers. The big positive for Thursday night is its timing during the work week. If someone is traveling from Mobile for a 6:30 p.m. kickoff, they can work til noon Thursday and still make it to Jacksonville in time to grab a brat and a beer at the tailgate (if traffic cooperates). Take off Friday, and enjoy a nice long weekend. For students at JSU, Thursday night is party night. I can't think of a better way to get the party started than going to a football game, then migrating together over to the party spot, wherever it happens to be. Sure, this means students will leave in droves after halftime, but doesn't that happen to some extent anyway, even on Saturdays? Are Thursday games ideal? No. But they're not as terrible as some. FRIDAY NIGHT - High school. No college game should ever be played at any time on this day. This isn't just a courtesy to fans. It helps coaches out. You can't do much recruiting if you're stuck on the sidelines of your own game. On top of that, it totally wipes out being able to lure recruits to the college game, since the recruits are also stuck at their own games. This is just an awful, awful choice for college football. Worst night of the week by far. SATURDAY - This is the day the Lord Himself set aside for college football. OK, maybe not, but the reason there's so much competition on this day is because it's by far the best day for The Game. I totally get why CUSA, SBC, the MAC, and others give up Saturdays for a chance of better visibility on TV. I do. But I'm not sure the difference in ratings is large enough to warrant the switch. Even if viewership of a much-anticipated G5 game doubles, you're generally only gaining about a million viewers. The SEC averages nearly SEVEN TIMES that amount as a conference. I think you'd be better served putting out the best product possible on a day set aside for college football, rather than shifting to a less-than-ideal weeknight, even if you get a slight bump in viewership. But that's just my opinion. |
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Post by jsumania on Jun 10, 2023 21:10:15 GMT -6
At the same time I would not want to lose KSU, Middle and WKU as opponents. Is the ultimate goal to score more viewers or have Saturday games? Saturday games with more competition seem to be lower rated than midweek games and we have no history of attendance on Tuesday or Wednesday games. If the word gets out those nights should be as easy to attend as a Thursday game. Thursday games in the past have been pretty well attended. In a few months we will get to see if anyone shows. The goal is to have high viewership AND as many traditional Saturday games as possible. Our attendance is going to dwindle with these midweek games. You will see. We'll visit this thread again in December. I would trade home games against KSU, MTSU, and WKU... for Marshall, Southern Miss, Troy, Appalachian State, and Louisiana any day of the week. |
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Post by oldkappasig on Jun 11, 2023 6:27:59 GMT -6
Why is Thursday better than Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday? I understand Friday but the other days are all about the same. Plus Thursdays have NFL competition and that is a big loser for all college teams. It all boils down to personal preference. I don't believe there is an objective measure here. That said, here's my opinion... SUNDAY - NFL. No college game should ever be played at any time on this day. MONDAY NIGHT - NFL. See Sunday. TUESDAY NIGHT - Usually not much competition here, but it's just an odd day for college ball. For those with Mon-Fri jobs, especially if they travel, it wrecks the middle of the work week. You can work maybe a half day Tuesday if you want to tailgate or need to travel. If the game runs long, you'll then either be bleary at work Wednesday morning, or you'll need to take a day or half-day then, too. Not all jobs are the same, but in my experience, Mondays through Wednesdays are the busiest days, with people cramming things in before taking it easy (or even skipping, where possible and permitted) at the end of the work week. WEDNESDAY NIGHT - Probably fine for most people. But for many churchgoers in the South (and not just baptists!) Wednesday nights are for church. One of my best friends in college wouldn't do ANYTHING on a Wednesday night if it conflicted with church. (Not a baptist.) My current church (Southern Baptist) used to have a big fellowship meal on Wednesdays. That ended with the virus of unknown origin, and it's been one of the few things we haven't been able to kickstart back into existence. But even now, we teach hold children/youth bible studies on Wednesday nights. Football on this night is problematic for me, because I'm one of the children's teachers. I don't get to attend many games in person as it is, but this would prevent me from even being able to watch most of the game on TV, and even if I watch a delayed stream, I can't sync it with the Voice, which means I'm stuck with whatever announcers are on the main broadcast. That just takes me out of the game completely. THURSDAY NIGHT - There *are* some high school games and a couple of NFL games on Thursdays, so that's a problem. But when it comes to midweek dates, this is the premium slot. The high school games only conflict with fans connected with those particular games. That's a relatively small number. Diehard NFL fans may watch Thursday Night Football, regardless of who's playing, but MOST college football fans (especially in the South) will choose a college game over an NFL broadcast, unless THEIR team is one of the NFL teams playing. I mean, if it's the Falcons vs the Saints on Thursday night, and JSU's playing the same time, well... the Gamecocks are going to lose a bunch of eyeballs. Otherwise, the NFL game will barely made a dent in the ratings/attendance numbers. The big positive for Thursday night is its timing during the work week. If someone is traveling from Mobile for a 6:30 p.m. kickoff, they can work til noon Thursday and still make it to Jacksonville in time to grab a brat and a beer at the tailgate (if traffic cooperates). Take off Friday, and enjoy a nice long weekend. For students at JSU, Thursday night is party night. I can't think of a better way to get the party started than going to a football game, then migrating together over to the party spot, wherever it happens to be. Sure, this means students will leave in droves after halftime, but doesn't that happen to some extent anyway, even on Saturdays? Are Thursday games ideal? No. But they're not as terrible as some. FRIDAY NIGHT - High school. No college game should ever be played at any time on this day. This isn't just a courtesy to fans. It helps coaches out. You can't do much recruiting if you're stuck on the sidelines of your own game. On top of that, it totally wipes out being able to lure recruits to the college game, since the recruits are also stuck at their own games. This is just an awful, awful choice for college football. Worst night of the week by far. SATURDAY - This is the day the Lord Himself set aside for college football. OK, maybe not, but the reason there's so much competition on this day is because it's by far the best day for The Game. I totally get why CUSA, SBC, the MAC, and others give up Saturdays for a chance of better visibility on TV. I do. But I'm not sure the difference in ratings is large enough to warrant the switch. Even if viewership of a much-anticipated G5 game doubles, you're generally only gaining about a million viewers. The SEC averages nearly SEVEN TIMES that amount as a conference. I think you'd be better served putting out the best product possible on a day set aside for college football, rather than shifting to a less-than-ideal weeknight, even if you get a slight bump in viewership. But that's just my opinion. You really need to take this up with Rich Rod. At the alumni association tour after he was hired, Rich Rod plainly stated his goal was to get Jax State as much NATIONAL exposure as possible. That would involve playing week night games any day of the week. He also said "HE hoped" the fans would get on board with the concept. WE NEED for the public to realize we are relevant. NOT making this up. Rich Rod was clear and I'll be there! |
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