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Post by King_Gamecock on Oct 6, 2022 6:49:52 GMT -6
MTSU is a confusing team this year... kind of like us last year.
They were blown the heck out by Jimmy Mad.
They beat The U in Miami.
They lost to UTSA giving up 600 yards of offense and 32 first downs / 45 points.
Really, really, Jeckyl and Hyde.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 6, 2022 9:34:28 GMT -6
The other intangible in all this is how CUSA itself responds to the latest realignment.
If WKU and Liberty maintain their strength, MTSU and UTEP continue to improve, and Sam and Jax State can hit the ground running, that could yield 6 bowl teams in 2024. La Tech is normally decent, so we can expect them to improve, and even NMSU and FIU have shown flashes this season that suggest their dark times may be coming to an end with their recent coaching changes.
This is all speculative. Don't mistake my optimism for rose-colored glasses. Some of these programs have a LONG way to go.
My point is that the people calling CUSA the "worst G5 league" may be eating crow in a couple of years. Things happen fast in G5. Remember just a couple seasons ago, the Sun Belt was the laughingstock of FBS, and the MWC was revered as a near-P5 quality league with such powerhouses as Boise State, Fresno State, and Utah State.
Sure, CUSA can stumble out of the gate and be an embarrassment to all parties involved. But the reverse can also be true.
And if we come out strong in 2023 and 2024, there's far less reason for WKU and MTSU to go anywhere. Both of them learned a hard lesson about chasing rainbows when they left the Sun Belt.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 6, 2022 13:32:16 GMT -6
More rumors about the rumors... The unknown media partner is supposedly Turner, which wants to get involved in college sports. Rather than get in a bidding war over an upper tier league, their plan is to negotiate a deal for a "low-end" G5 conference and build it up until it's worth something. Turner's Atlanta connections explain the interest in including KSU. Sounds simple enough, until you try to find what networks might be involved. Turner is held by Warner Bros Discovery. The only three networks currently under the actual "Turner" unit (collectively called the "T-Nets" within WBD) are TBS, TNT, and TruTV. Now, if WBD is the potential partner, and not merely one of their child companies, then that would suggest the soon-to-be-combined Discovery+/HBO Max streaming service could be a player in this. And one would think that TNT Sports would be involved, since "sports" is in the name. TNT Sports, btw, is not actually one of the T-Nets. It's under a totally separate Sports unit, which also features Motor Trend Group, AT&T SportsNet, and Eurosport, among others. Also, WBD is based in NYC, not Atlanta, so their interest in KSU would be minimal at best. If there is any truth to this rumor, depending how it all shakes out with the primary and secondary rights and exactly which WBD networks would be involved, it could be a good thing. WBD/Turner's basic cable channels are widely available on most cable, satellite, and streaming services, and the Discovery+/HBO Max merger could set them up as a major competitor of the Mouse, so we're not talking about some fringe streaming service no one's ever heard of. The downside, though, is that (AFAIK) there isn't an OTA broadcaster affiliated with WBD. Doesn't matter to me, since I have to stream everything, but I know a lot of people closer in to cities who prefer to watch free OTA broadcasts. I do like the part about them wanting to "build" a conference up. That could be a very, very good thing for Jax State. BTW, the 3rd-tier streaming rights I believe would still go to ESPN+. I remember seeing that somewhere in another rumor, so you know it's got to be true.
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Post by Cleburneslim on Oct 6, 2022 13:51:57 GMT -6
Sounds great to me. Let’s just go ahead and make it so. I too like the idea of building up a conference. I often speculated someone should invest in and prioritize a lower conference or conferences like espn promotes their P5 interest, to the detriment of the lower level schools.
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Post by troysux on Oct 6, 2022 14:49:25 GMT -6
I was hoping they'd wait 2-3 years before expanding again to give us and Sam a chance to get fully transitioned. But if we can get a media deal that puts games where you don't have to subscribe to Steve's favorite channel then so be it.
The downside on expanding is that we have to draw from FCS. I honestly don't see anyone from the Sun Belt moving over. The MAC is a compact bus league so that certainly isn't happening.
I think going to more than 12 is a mistake. If we are a one bid league it makes each slice of the pie smaller.
Would someone leave? If the MWC loses anyone they might call UTEP or MTSU. Both would fit in there. I just hope either both leave or both stay. If only one leaves we have an FIU situation where someone is a million miles away with no chance of finding a neighbor for them.
Our only hope for FIU is that the AAC decides they want to go to 16 and add them to help FAU. Nothing against FIU but they are on an island and I'm sure they would like to be in a league with FAU as well.
WKU had a spot in the MAC but MTSU wasn't interested in going with them. I think UMASS turned them down for full membership as well.
With the league as spread out as it is it helps if you have a neighbor. It builds a rivalry and boosts ticket sales to visiting fans. Right now we only have two pairs: MTSU/WKU and UTEP/NMSU. So they are good and don't need help right now. So while EKU would be a good fit they really don't help the league from a structural standpoint.
Kennesaw and UTC would be good fits. Either one would be fine with me. I don't know how much pushback UTC would get from the mothership if they wanted to move up. I also question fan support and facilities. They also don't sponsor baseball. Kennesaw would need to expand their football stadium.
I think SFA would be a good addition as well. It gives Sammy an old rival and neighbor.
On the fence about the other JSU. It would be a neighbor for LaTech but how would they do if they left the SWAC? Would fans turn out for non-"classic" games.
Not much we can do to help Liberty or FIU.
Just a hard no on any of the suggestions on FB only for NDSU and friends. Same on a non-FB member. We left that hybrid crap behind in FCS.
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Post by Cleburneslim on Oct 6, 2022 16:32:19 GMT -6
How far is NCA&T from liberty?
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Post by troysux on Oct 6, 2022 18:31:01 GMT -6
How far is NCA&T from liberty? According to my maps app it is 107 miles.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 7, 2022 10:03:36 GMT -6
How far is NCA&T from liberty? According to my maps app it is 107 miles. I want to like NCAT, and they're in a perfect place to make a travel partner for Liberty, but they really don't have anything to offer beyond (most years) solid football. Adding them to CUSA would moderately-to-severely weaken the conference in men's hoops, women's hoops, baseball, softball, and volleyball. (Those are the five sports I picked to compare all candidates, since I don't have time to go through every single sport.) The only schools that remotely compare to NCAT's poor showing are Jackson State and Tarleton State, but NCAT is the worst of the bunch. Jackson St has FAR better football (at least, as long as they have Deion) and has a really good women's hoops program. Tarleton is mediocre (but still way better) in men's hoops, softball, and volleyball, and has been on a huge facilities improvement campaign funded by the TAMU system's bottomless pocketbook of oil money. NCAT is just ... 100 miles from Liberty. That's it. That's the selling point.
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Post by troysux on Oct 7, 2022 16:33:06 GMT -6
Looks like Kennesaw is headed to CUSA in 2024. So we are getting our neighbor, one we already have a rivalry with that is just a couple hours away.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 8, 2022 1:08:18 GMT -6
Kennesaw's BoT or Regents or whatever they have over there are meeting soon to vote to approve the CUSA invitation. Assuming they accept, which they should, for a 12-team conference, the East division will be complete.
Now to add two western teams.
Here's where it gets complicated. The obvious choice is SFA, since they're strong in hoops and have a strong rivalry with Sam. Their location is also perfect.
But folks over in Texas say they don't think SFA is institutionally able to make the jump. Bad administrators kind of wrecked things for them.
So that bumps D-II-transitioning Tarleton State up to leading contender status. A lot of upside with that pick, but there's no getting around the fact it's a speculative choice. We could gamble and wind up with a Coastal or Liberty... or we could gamble and wind up with Idaho.
It also leaves open the biggest question of all:
Who will be the 2nd team from the West?
Mo State? McNeese? Abilene?
My guess is, we'll find out something soon.
If the media partner pushes for 14 teams, EKU may still get a chance, but that will probably come in a 3rd wave of expansion, in another year or two.
Maybe by then, SFA will have righted the ship. If not, then they may be lost to FCS forever.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 6:32:02 GMT -6
Turner and KSU. It's making sense now.
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Post by Cleburneslim on Oct 8, 2022 11:22:23 GMT -6
FIU to the west. Then add SFA and EKU.
So. East Liberty Wku Mtsu JSU KSU EKU
West La tech Shsu Sfa Utep Nmsu FIU
Works great till realignment comes knocking again. Then plug wholes where they open with. Abilene tarleton mcneese Mo st. UTC Apeay ncat utc. But if 9 teams leave again then all bets are off.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 10, 2022 11:12:07 GMT -6
FIU to the west. Then add SFA and EKU. So. East Liberty Wku Mtsu JSU KSU EKU West La tech Shsu Sfa Utep Nmsu FIU Works great till realignment comes knocking again. Then plug wholes where they open with. Abilene tarleton mcneese Mo st. UTC Apeay ncat utc. But if 9 teams leave again then all bets are off. I don't agree with your explicit list of teams, but I agree 100% with your guiding philosophy: Get to 12 teams, with two solid regional divisions, and stay there until we need to plug holes. I disagree with the idea of blowing up to 14-16 teams just so we'll be "ready" in case of Realignment Apocalypse 2.0. This to me seems to be INVITING teams to leave, since we'd inevitably weaken the conference by adding so many FCS teams at once. WKU's not happy. MTSU is content, but has their eyes firmly set on the AAC. Liberty would give anything to be in the AAC (as a step up) or the SBC (to be among their regional rivals). But suppose JSU, SHSU, and KSU come in strong (a la JMU in the Belt). Suppose recent coaching hires at NMSU and FIU pay off and those teams become competitive again. Suppose strong rivalries develop between MTSU and JSU & KSU, and between WKU and JSU & Liberty. Suppose the new media deal is actually pretty sweet, both financially and for viewers. Suppose CUSA24 lands multiple bowl bids, and comes out ahead in most (if not all) of those games, setting us squarely ahead of or equal to the MAC, the Belt, and even the AAC and MWC. Suppose CUSA23 basketball is as strong as it promises to be, and we become a multi-bid league, awash in NCAA Tourney payouts. Suppose fan excitement grows to an all-time high. (In CUSA, the bar for that is admittedly low.) Then, other G5 conferences come calling again. Does WKU want to leave now? Does MTSU? Liberty may still be torn, but only because of those regional rivals. (Similarly, FIU might jump at an AAC invite to be among south Florida teams, and UTEP/NMSU might love to be in a conference based in the Mountain Time Zone.) But losing those teams on the extreme edges could be a plus, making CUSA24 even better for fan excitement. And if all that came to pass, CUSA might be strong enough that poaching an unhappy Belt team (or even an AAC team) might suddenly be a realistic idea. (It's currently not realistic at all, but I'm talking about 3-5 years from now.) Don't mistake me here. I'm not trying to say CUSA24 is going to punch itself into the P5 and become a rival to the SEC. Anyone who says that is either trolling or delusional. What I *am* saying is that CUSA24 could accidentally end up being way better than people expect. And if that happens, by the time the next round of realignment happens, we won't enter it from the position of weakness where we currently find ourselves. If things go really well, we could actually be one of the beneficiaries of the falling dominoes, rather than a victim.
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Post by Cleburneslim on Oct 10, 2022 11:46:44 GMT -6
FIU to the west. Then add SFA and EKU. So. East Liberty Wku Mtsu JSU KSU EKU West La tech Shsu Sfa Utep Nmsu FIU Works great till realignment comes knocking again. Then plug wholes where they open with. Abilene tarleton mcneese Mo st. UTC Apeay ncat utc. But if 9 teams leave again then all bets are off. I don't agree with your explicit list of teams, but I agree 100% with your guiding philosophy: Get to 12 teams, with two solid regional divisions, and stay there until we need to plug holes. I disagree with the idea of blowing up to 14-16 teams just so we'll be "ready" in case of Realignment Apocalypse 2.0. This to me seems to be INVITING teams to leave, since we'd inevitably weaken the conference by adding so many FCS teams at once. WKU's not happy. MTSU is content, but has their eyes firmly set on the AAC. Liberty would give anything to be in the AAC (as a step up) or the SBC (to be among their regional rivals). But suppose JSU, SHSU, and KSU come in strong (a la JMU in the Belt). Suppose recent coaching hires at NMSU and FIU pay off and those teams become competitive again. Suppose strong rivalries develop between MTSU and JSU & KSU, and between WKU and JSU & Liberty. Suppose the new media deal is actually pretty sweet, both financially and for viewers. Suppose CUSA24 lands multiple bowl bids, and comes out ahead in most (if not all) of those games, setting us squarely ahead of or equal to the MAC, the Belt, and even the AAC and MWC. Suppose CUSA23 basketball is as strong as it promises to be, and we become a multi-bid league, awash in NCAA Tourney payouts. Suppose fan excitement grows to an all-time high. (In CUSA, the bar for that is admittedly low.) Then, other G5 conferences come calling again. Does WKU want to leave now? Does MTSU? Liberty may still be torn, but only because of those regional rivals. (Similarly, FIU might jump at an AAC invite to be among south Florida teams, and UTEP/NMSU might love to be in a conference based in the Mountain Time Zone.) But losing those teams on the extreme edges could be a plus, making CUSA24 even better for fan excitement. And if all that came to pass, CUSA might be strong enough that poaching an unhappy Belt team (or even an AAC team) might suddenly be a realistic idea. (It's currently not realistic at all, but I'm talking about 3-5 years from now.) Don't mistake me here. I'm not trying to say CUSA24 is going to punch itself into the P5 and become a rival to the SEC. Anyone who says that is either trolling or delusional. What I *am* saying is that CUSA24 could accidentally end up being way better than people expect. And if that happens, by the time the next round of realignment happens, we won't enter it from the position of weakness where we currently find ourselves. If things go really well, we could actually be one of the beneficiaries of the falling dominoes, rather than a victim. That is a lot of supposition. Something in the middle is more likely. But I certainly agree that Jax States potential is in its hands. If we want to do well conference wise, then we must be excellent. I’d guess nmsu and FIU will continue to be bottom dwellers because that’s what they are and have been. But every conference has them. Each conference mate needs put their best foot forward.
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Post by Whup Em All on Oct 10, 2022 16:29:17 GMT -6
That is a lot of supposition. Something in the middle is more likely. But I certainly agree that Jax States potential is in its hands. If we want to do well conference wise, then we must be excellent. It is a lot of supposition. But so is the opposite extreme: Those saying, "CUSA is dead... DEAD! Close the doors! Send JSU and SHSU back to FCS where they belong and dissolve this pathetic excuse for an FBS conference!" (Most of those are SBC fans for some reason. Dunno why they care.) But in my long line of suppositions there's very little not grounded in some degree of reality: - suppose JSU, SHSU, and KSU come in strong (a la JMU in the Belt) - THIS CAN EASILY HAPPEN
- Suppose recent coaching hires at NMSU and FIU pay off and those teams become competitive again. - THIS CAN EASILY HAPPEN. I SAID "COMPETITIVE" NOT "CFP CHAMPIONS"
- Suppose strong rivalries develop between MTSU and JSU & KSU - THIS SHOULD HAPPEN
- ...and between WKU and JSU & Liberty - THIS MAY VERY WELL HAPPEN IF WE DON'T SUCK
- Suppose the new media deal is actually pretty sweet, both financially - THIS MIGHT HAPPEN, GIVEN THE RUMORS
- ...and for viewers - THIS SHOULD HAPPEN. THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FOR FANS WOULD BE A REPEAT OF THE CURRENT DEAL, AND THAT'S OFF THE TABLE
- Suppose CUSA24 lands multiple bowl bids - THIS COULD HAPPEN
- ...and comes out ahead in most (if not all) of those games - THIS CAN ALSO HAPPEN, IT HAPPENED TO CUSA LAST SEASON.
- Suppose CUSA23 basketball is as strong as it promises to be, and we become a multi-bid league, awash in NCAA Tourney payouts - NO REASON WHY THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN
- Suppose fan excitement grows to an all-time high - THIS WILL HAPPEN IF MOST (IF NOT ALL) OF THE ABOVE HAPPEN
Chances all these suppositions come to pass are not 100%. But they're non-zero. I'd say it's probably better than 50%. It won't take a lot to improve our current situation. If most of the above actually happen, we'll be in a far better place. But you're 100% correct: JSU and our conference brethren have to make this happen. Nothing is automatic.
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