|
UIC
Nov 15, 2022 19:29:15 GMT -6
via mobile
bigboi and stevo like this
Post by brother on Nov 15, 2022 19:29:15 GMT -6
Last night’s game was………disappointing.
It may take awhile for this team to gel.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 15, 2022 20:02:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by leeroy on Nov 15, 2022 20:02:51 GMT -6
They scrapped and made it a game late, but we looked lost on the offensive end.
I'm worried about Friday.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 15, 2022 20:30:24 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bigboi on Nov 15, 2022 20:30:24 GMT -6
They scrapped and made it a game late, but we looked lost on the offensive end. I'm worried about Friday. I thought Liberty would beat Bama and boy was I wrong. I just want to see improvement game to game.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UIC
Nov 16, 2022 11:32:29 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2022 11:32:29 GMT -6
How many years is the rebuild?
|
|
|
Post by brother on Nov 16, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -6
How many years is the rebuild? Not years. Weeks. Trust Ray
|
|
|
Post by Whup Em All on Nov 16, 2022 17:10:03 GMT -6
How many years is the rebuild? Not years. Weeks. Trust Ray If Harper's history is any indication, they'll be playing like vets just in time for conference play, and playing like contenders by tourney time.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 16, 2022 19:38:51 GMT -6
via mobile
bigboi likes this
Post by Cleburneslim on Nov 16, 2022 19:38:51 GMT -6
Not years. Weeks. Trust Ray If Harper's history is any indication, they'll be playing like vets just in time for conference play, and playing like contenders by tourney time. Happens every year doesn't it.
|
|
stevo
Full Member
Posts: 732
|
UIC
Nov 16, 2022 21:22:42 GMT -6
Post by stevo on Nov 16, 2022 21:22:42 GMT -6
So why is it OK to not beat anybody any good in basketball non-conference, but it isn't allowed in football?
BTW, UIC isn't very good.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 8:27:13 GMT -6
Post by King_Gamecock on Nov 17, 2022 8:27:13 GMT -6
So why is it OK to not beat anybody any good in basketball non-conference, but it isn't allowed in football? BTW, UIC isn't very good. I did a thread on this last year. Basically, you have to look at trajectory and history. Our basketball team has been better since Harper arrived than at any period during our D1 membership. We have been to the dance twice... and if you compare how other mid-major programs were built, it took time. You don't see a team go from being a doorstop to being a consistent contender. There is an entire culture that has to be developed. Recruiting, culture, support, facilities... all of it ties together and coaching is a piece of the puzzle. If you look at the history of a program like Wichita State, you will see what I mean. They are in a basketball hotbed and it took time for them to build their program. It isn't like football where we are in a hotbed and have a history of success. We have sucked almost every year since before any player on our team was even born. Harper has more 20-win seasons than every coach before him combined. I think the real issue is that we are at the ceiling of what we can do at the current developmental stage of our program. Replacing the coach won't change that. It isn't like we are having single-digit win seasons and topping out with 15 wins. We won the regular season conference title and went to the dance last year... and while one might argue that we backed our way in, we were dancing while Liberty and FGCU were sitting at home. UIC is a streaky team in a very good league. While we could have won the game, they beat Valpo and played Dayton tough early in the season last year. Both of those teams are historically much better than we are. I am not saying we should accept mediocrity like our baseball team has been of late. Our basketball program has been good. Maybe not great... but good. I don't expect us to be great, just good and competitive with an occasional upset win. Harper has delivered that.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 9:45:45 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Cleburneslim on Nov 17, 2022 9:45:45 GMT -6
Basketball, more so than football, is about recruiting exceptional skill talent and a coach has to start fresh each year with an almost entirely new team. The level of recruits a school has access to is based on the perceived reputation of a school. Jax State prior to Ray Harper was at let's say a 3 of 10 and now, you pick the number, we have climbed the rep ladder a rung or 2. With the move to CUSA we can an likely will climb even higher and recruit even better. So why would we ever fire the guy who has improved at every level. Shouldn't we wait until he has shown he can't raise the ceiling any higher. Its very hard to put 5 guys together and win from day one any season.
|
|
stevo
Full Member
Posts: 732
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 10:38:25 GMT -6
Post by stevo on Nov 17, 2022 10:38:25 GMT -6
I wasn't complaining about Harper. Hope he is here a long time. My point is that the losses to poor teams in non-conference is allowed by the fan base for basketball but not football.
JSU has not had a good non-conference basketball win in a long time. A few "moral victories".
Getting in last years tournament was backing in. As for the first tournament, I will remind you guys that 4 of the starters were James Greens players plus Giga.
Now, it wouldn't surprise me if JSU beat Alabama tomorrow night.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 12:25:43 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Cleburneslim on Nov 17, 2022 12:25:43 GMT -6
I wasn't complaining about Harper. Hope he is here a long time. My point is that the losses to poor teams in non-conference is allowed by the fan base for basketball but not football. JSU has not had a good non-conference basketball win in a long time. A few "moral victories". Getting in last years tournament was backing in. As for the first tournament, I will remind you guys that 4 of the starters were James Greens players plus Giga. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if JSU beat Alabama tomorrow night. It'd surprise me.
|
|
|
Post by brother on Nov 17, 2022 12:49:10 GMT -6
I think it’s pretty simple as to why OOC games do not have the same expectation as football. First of all, there are a lot more games in a basketball season than football. Losing some non conference games do not really hurt you unless you are in a multi bid conference. We are not. Most years, we are still in a one bid conference. Basketball is all about tournament time.
The name of the game is getting better and prepare for conference play and specifically conference tournament games. Non conference games are too early in the season to be that big of a deal. If we played more OOC games later in the season, it may be more important. There will be some upsets in the OOC season for a lot of mid majors. It will generally do nothing for their chances to make the NCAA.
All that being said, I would still rather win them than lose them, it’s just not as important as it is in football. Winning big OOC games in football can help you at bowl selection time. In the FCS days, it could also help you make the playoffs.
|
|
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 17:59:08 GMT -6
Post by oldkappasig on Nov 17, 2022 17:59:08 GMT -6
The job Harper has done with the resources he had is phenomenal. Rumor has it (and I believe it) he'll be around for a few more years. Yes four of the staters on his first team were already here. But I'd remind everyone, that team won just 8 games the year before. I would also think beating Belmont 5 straight times is a big deal. Beating Liberty at home is a big deal. Playing Alabama to 6 points is a big deal. Beating Tulsa at homwe is a big deal. Our basketball program for the first time last year was a revenue producing program. We got the right coach! Now he need students & fannies in the seats. There is no reason The Pete is not the toughest arena in the ASUN. It is so much better than most of the league. Another over looked fact. Harper has, I believe 14 JSU players in The European Pro leagues since his arrival. Ask yourself this question. How many November round robins did wqe play in prior to Harper. I thinkwe've also played in post season tournaments 4 of 6 years. I TRUST RAY>
|
|
stevo
Full Member
Posts: 732
|
UIC
Nov 17, 2022 22:10:58 GMT -6
bigboi likes this
Post by stevo on Nov 17, 2022 22:10:58 GMT -6
The job Harper has done with the resources he had is phenomenal. Rumor has it (and I believe it) he'll be around for a few more years. Yes four of the staters on his first team were already here. But I'd remind everyone, that team won just 8 games the year before. I would also think beating Belmont 5 straight times is a big deal. Beating Liberty at home is a big deal. Playing Alabama to 6 points is a big deal. Beating Tulsa at homwe is a big deal. Our basketball program for the first time last year was a revenue producing program. We got the right coach! Now he need students & fannies in the seats. There is no reason The Pete is not the toughest arena in the ASUN. It is so much better than most of the league. Another over looked fact. Harper has, I believe 14 JSU players in The European Pro leagues since his arrival. Ask yourself this question. How many November round robins did wqe play in prior to Harper. I thinkwe've also played in post season tournaments 4 of 6 years.I TRUST RAY> Don't know if this was intended for me or the group, but I will respond. Again as I said, I hope Harper is here a long time. A. Coach Green didn't win enough games. I thought he should have had one more year because he had good talent coming back. The decision to move on got a lot of wins. B. Belmont and Liberty along with Murray State are not non-conference. C. Losing to Alabama by 6 is not a big deal. Still a loss which was expected. JSU only beat Auburn-Montgomery by 8, that doesn't make A-M a good team. D. I remember beating Tulsa and being optimistic. But they ended up with a losing record (15-17). Felt the same about the Richmond win (12-20). E. 14 players in Europe shows there has been some talent brought in. So why aren't we beating some decent Mid-Majors. What I mean by decent is a team for example that ends up 20-10. F. November round robins are fine, but beat somebody decent. G. Post season appearences in the last 6 years is 3. * 2022 against Auburn * 2021 None * 2020 None * 2019 None * 2018 CBI beat a decent Canisius team that ended up 21-12. Maybe the best non-conference win in the 6 years. * 2017 against Louisville Let's see how we do against the likes of New Mexico, ETSU and South Alabama. Now beat Bama Friday night.
|
|